Brian Rhea Brian Rhea

Bright & Early Podcast

Mindframing for Entrepreneurs with Anne-Laure Le Cunff

Episode Transcript

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Brian: Hey everyone and welcome to bright and early the podcast for people building early-stage startups.

I’m your host Brian Rhea.

I talk to entrepreneurs, product people, designers, and marketing pros to learn what works, what doesn’t, and why; giving you at least one thing to apply to your business first thing tomorrow.

my guest today is an Laura Lacombe and Laura is a founder writer and speaker she studies neuroscience at King’s College London and also spends her time building products and writing about wellness creativity and culture at nest labs and Laura welcome to bright and early thanks so much for having me completely my pleasure you you showed up on my radar first when Jane Portman tweeted out your joy of missing out article and so I’ve been I’ve been hooked there I went and read that article that was it very interesting and then saw that you had all this other stuff already posted and they’ve just been digging in so could you just tell us about nest labs what you’re up to there what you’re up to in general sure it’s very interesting you’re mentioning this article because it’s been one of my most popular ones okay it’s it’s interesting that’s how you find me um in terms of what I’m doing at nest labs I just kind of like backtrack a little bit but I used to work at Google and then I started a company a startup which didn’t work out and nest Labs has been kind of my sandbox since then to explore and try new things launch new products experiment so what I journalist labs is that I build products and I write content that is all focused on wellness and productivity I deeply believe that it’s possible to do a lot and achieve ones goals without losing your sanity and how worked both in London and City confetti and having seen and experienced myself burnouts this is something I care a lot about and and I I think it’s possible to create products and to educate people so they don’t have to go through this so this is kind of the mission I have Atmos Labs and I do this sometimes on my own then sometimes collaborating with other people so what what percentage of your time would you say any given week or month is spent writing and researching doing that sort of work versus building an out building out an idea creating a new product how do you spell yeah yeah that’s it that’s a great question so I basically have every morning I book an hour and a half it’s in my calendar it’s the first thing I do in the morning and I write I don’t do it because I think it’s one of the greatest ways to connect people but also because I do have an interesting need for it so I do that usually from 8:00 in the morning to 9:30 I just write and then they published this and then the rest of my day is filled with either idat encoding but also consulting so lots of the ideas I write about are things that companies are interested in and that they’d like to teach their employees so I sometimes do workshops or one-to-one consulting I resume so and this is pretty flexible basically the only one thing I have that is fixed every day in my calendar is writing in the morning and then the rest is consulting building coding all of that how did you how did you just come to that practice that an hour and a half in the morning it’s writing is that is that something that you would recommend to everybody or is it the sort of thing that’s like no Brian you might need to schedule 3:30 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. and go to the gym like that is your thing that keeps you grounded or 1:00 o’clock to 3:30 you need to be coding like how did you arrive at that particular practice for yourself and how would you advise other people to find what their fixed calendar yeah it might be yeah it’s interesting you’re asking it this way because that’s actually the only thing I recommend is to book that time so if it’s writing you want to do if it’s going to the gym if it’s I wouldn’t leave it to chance I wouldn’t expect for it to just happen so you have to book it and and then it’s more of a matter of like what else is going on in your life basically so in my face I have a lot going on through the day I have clients that are in different time zones and I found that 8:00 to 9:30 is usually pretty quiet so it’s pretty nice I don’t usually have calls around that time people usually don’t expect to have meetings that early in my time zone so this is what works for me but if you’re someone who has the full-time job for example and sometimes you know after a lunch time is better for you that’s completely fine so I would tell people to just experiment with it you can have one week where you book it in the morning or in the afternoon it doesn’t really matter and see how easy it is for you to stick to it but the one thing that i hunger percent recommend is to put whatever you feel is essential something that you would feel bad about not doing at the end of the week if you didn’t do it mmm this needs to go into your calendar and this needs to have this fixed time that is 100% dedicated choice that’s yeah that’s that’s interesting that’s and that’s really helpful I am trying to get a better handle on my routine and calendar and schedule and so as you’re saying that that’s why I was really curious about that why I want to go back to this oh that’s so the joy of missing out article you mentioned that it’s it’s one of your most popular articles why do you think that it is what about it do you think has can connected and resonated well with with so many people yeah I I think we’re we’re going through something pretty unique a generation I mean we’re whatever you do you’re also very aware of what everyone else is doing so the previous generation you could just stay home write a book go to the park do your thing basically and just enjoy yourself but we’re so connected nowadays that even if you try to get away and focus on your own thing you will have notifications or feed that you can scroll that gives you real-time updates into what other people are doing and it’s a very natural behavior for human beings to compare themselves to each other so you will like oh I’m doing this but this person doing that is it’s better am I missing on something so this is why FOMO has become one of the most popular expression that has been used the best years having massive FOMO because people other people seem to do you thinks are more interesting that what you’re currently doing and I think the article I wrote recently with people because it’s all about claiming back your time and all about making the conscious choice of disconnecting from social media and deciding that the right thing for you right now is to spend time alone or doing things that really matter to you and doing them because you want to do them and not because society is pressuring you into doing the latest thing attending the latest exhibition and always you know keeping up with what’s going on basically so I think the reason why this article is so popular is because it really resonates with lots of this stuff our generation is going through well it was really good I got a lot of things in it that they completely resonated I think one thing I wanted to ask you about it is that I often I sometimes find myself swinging too far in the other direction of like of not I don’t necessarily having this fear of missing out I know that there’s always more to do than I’ll ever be able but that from time to time it is it is good to push yourself like to get out of get out of your comfort zone try something new do something that you wouldn’t normally that sometimes is spurred on from seeing one of your friends doing it and sharing about it so what what what thoughts sir what advice you have on that I totally agree I and yeah I totally agree and despite the fact that I love staying home and just speaking out on my laptop I’m actually a pretty social person and so I yes I totally agree with you I think the difference and what’s really important is to be mindful of the reason why you’re going to go out and do a certain activity are you doing it because you’re pushing yourself out of your comfort zone and trying something new and as you know it is a way of growing as a person so this is great or are you doing it because you feel pressure to do it you feel like you’re going to be judged because you’re the only one in your group of friends who hasn’t seen that movie or attended that exhibition or you know went to that dinner etc so it’s I’m not saying that you should always push back on doing things but friends what I’m saying is that you should ideally try to always ask yourself why what do you want to do this yeah yeah that’s so good you s so at Ness lab nest labs calm Ness is with two S’s listeners so you have this handbook called the beginner’s guide to mind framing and really is super readable is very like straightforward super good and in it you ask why do we struggle so much to accomplish our goals and we do oh why why do we struggle so much to accomplish our goals in it’s a yeah it’s I think it’s something like 90% of people never managed to actually achieve their near resolutions which is quite interesting it’s mostly everyone can do it so it’s it’s quite interesting so I think the the reason why that’s the case is that we focus a lot on the end goal rather than focusing on the process and this is really what mine framing is about so we very often give ourselves goals that are very ambitious that are also very exciting but in order to achieve these goals we usually in tells a very complex process and we kind of get lost in the weeds and it never happens we lose motivation in the process so this is why I really advocate for committing to something you can do every day instead of focusing on the angle so instead of saying my goal is to become a developer I would say coding every day my goal is to become an author no I will just write every day and I think if you do these things every day you will start seeing some patterns emerge and you will also start knowing enough about the topic that you’re trying to learn or do you think I trying to teach you start making educated guesses and the key word here is educated before you get started you have no idea what you’re doing right and and so your your goals are they don’t make sense basically because you have no idea what it and tell us to get there whereas if you’re just like okay I’m going to start cutting every day or writing every day I should start running every day you’re going to start noticing that maybe your sweet spot is 700 words articles that’s where you feel very efficient and and you communicate at your best and maybe you’re going to start noticing you’re very interested in if you start coding you’re going to notice that actually front-end there’s more your your thing and so you can get more into this and then you can design a goal that makes sense for yourself but I think starting with the process rather than starting with the angle is a really good way to actually achieving them and you you also talked about three mind frames that are essential you talk about growth mindset metacognition and self authorship so can you define each of those and and describe why they’re essential to eventually achieving your goals for sure yes so the first one growth mindset as opposite to fixed make sense it’s pretty simple and it’s been a bit overused in my opinion but it is actually a really good mainframe to have in order to achieve your goals so growth mindset means that you believe that you can achieve anything with enough hard work and you see any challenge as a temporary setback something that you can overcome to quarrel yourself as a person where someone who’s in a fixed mindset will think that they have those kind of like predefined abilities and they have to basically try to do them most achieve the most they can based on these fixed abilities so someone with a fixed mindset will tend at work to optimize the way they present themselves based on the abilities that they think they have were someone with a growth mindset will feel more comfortable making mistakes trying new things because the end goal is to grow and not to seem like someone who is the most competent person on the team so that’s growth mindset versus fixed mindset metacognition which sounds like a very fancy word just means knowing about knowing okay so in turn instead of you know blindly learning new stuff taking a step back and studied the way you learn what’s the best way to learn for you how do you learn best what are the tools that work best for you what are the strategies that work best for you so it’s just taking that step back and learning about the way you learn that’s metacognition which is super important lots of people tend to jump in jumping straight into learning and coming and like learning lots of stuff but if you don’t know what’s the best way for you to learn and remember stuff that’s not going to be as efficient and the last one self authorship is the belief that you can define your own life and your own values and who you are outside of the frameworks that are given to you by a society so instead of responding to external pressure to choose a certain career or to behave in a certain way self efficient means that you believe you can be your own person mm-hmm yeah okay so a first question about metacognition and then another one about self authorship so on metacognition is that is that related to or the same as like emotional self-awareness being you know socially aware of how of conversations how things are flowing or that that type of self-awareness or does metacognition is it meaning specifically this is how I think this is how I learn this is how these are the things that I know and don’t know are they related all so the only way they’re related as you mentioned it is that they’re both forms of self-awareness okay yes totally both herself and raise emotional sulfurous as you can say in the word is about emotion and metacognition is about cognition so really about thinking okay really bad thinking yeah yeah so how how does somebody get better at at accurate metacognition or doing metacognition well I’m not sure exactly how to describe it like yes I get better that so first I am going to I am absolutely not affiliated to them and are going to recommend it because it’s an excellent course it’s actually the best-selling course on Coursera okay out of all of the courses and it’s called learning how to learn and it’s it’s excellent and it’s free so it’s yeah it’s completely free and it’s really good so I would say that’s if someone listening to this is very interested in metacognition I would recommend taking that course I took it and it’s really good and it’s um there are lots of different different strategies but one of the things I thought like helped me a lot for example was journaling so just reflecting back on the way I learned something so if I so I learned how to code earlier this year and once a week I would just kind of like write down what I learned but also how I felt about the experience how easy it was what I felt was hindering my progress and a little by little like this I started kind of you know redesigning the way I learned and and it really was from things that were very close to the content such as I noticed that taking notes on paper weirdly work better for me so that’s one thing I changed I was taking notes on Google Docs before and so I did that but also I noticed that I worked best when I was at my desk rather than on the kitchen table so I started changing that to you so the two things I would say is like there are lots of like very complex strategies that we take to our podcast to go through so I think learning how to learn is a great horse to to learn all of the strategies if someone doesn’t want to do this the simple act of taking the time to reflect and think about the way you learn and what worked and what didn’t that’s in your the way you learn based on this is a great way to approach this yeah no doubt I mean yeah it’s it’s about self-awareness and so self question is is key there hey friends say good time to pause and let you know that bright and early is brought to you by transistor FM besides being a really easy to use podcast hosting service I also really like the way that Justin and John the guys behind the software are running their company as I’m talking here with an lore about wellness creativity and entrepreneurship those are all things that Justin and John are focused on with transistor they they talk on a pretty regular basis about how they want to be sure that transistor promotes mindfulness and awareness those are things that I also value and I am proud to host my show with them and so if that if that resonates with you if what I’m talking about here with Aunt Laura resonates with you and you’re thinking about starting a podcast for your business just go to transistor fm and let them know that Brian sent you [Music] okay so I’m question about self authorship because the idea that that we have you know free will alright I guess let me let me reframe it the suggestion that we do not have free will is somewhat in vogue in in certain you know intellectual circles right now that we are completely dictated by chemical reactions our response is yes on our upbringing in our context and just we’re we’re just a system responding to previous feedback right so what are you what are your thoughts on that and how this this idea of South authorship and empowerment is actually critical and essential this is super interesting and especially because as you mentioned I’m studying neuroscience so you a very interesting question and I felt like the answer was in your question already because you say that we’re a system basically reacting to constant feedback and I think this is the key here I do believe personally that we are a very very complex system replying to feedback but I also like that you mentioned constant feedback so I don’t think that anything that happened to us in the past will define everything that will happen to us in the future and I think that any way we change our environment or behavior or habits today can impact the way the system will function in the future and this is very important to me because it does take the our body and our brain takes new feedback every day and adapts to it so this is the very important part for me is that yes it’s a very complex machine but it is taking in new information every day and reacting and acting based on this so we do I do think that we have free will in the sense that we can decide what kind of feedback we give to our minds and we can we can’t really predict how we’re going to react to it but we can you know do a B testing every day and see what works and what doesn’t and just test it basically and neuroscience is still a very you know compared to other types of science it’s still pretty young so there’s lots of stuff that we don’t know but it doesn’t prevent anyone to experiment with their own mind on the daily basis and see what works for them and what doesn’t right it feels like that that answer ties back to your previous response about focusing on the process rather than the goal like if my if my goal is to be able to you know I don’t know run it run a 10k yeah under a certain amount of time well I’m gonna fail on that today and tomorrow and the next day and the next day and and so by by kind of succumbing to that feeling as opposed to saying okay overtime but that sounds like in the physical sense in taking it back to the mind overtime if I continually give it a new piece of feedback every single day and retrain it reframe things and have a different mindset over time eventually I will start to see those things change and it will feel as if I have I will have changed my mindset and practice some self but it takes a long time exactly do you know I love that you’re saying this because one of my favorite expressions is fail like a scientist okay and it’s really about that it’s exactly what you just described scientists they don’t just do the experiment and it works they try it and it fails and then they try it again changing a you know little component of the experiment it fells again and they try it again it fells again and it fails and fails and fails over and over again until it works so it’s it’s really about that it’s really about trusting the process and just keeping on trying and and you know changing your tiny thing everyday and testing it and see what works and what doesn’t and at some point it will start working out and you will you will feel it you will know that it’s starting to work out and you will do more of what is working and less of what is not working but it’s the same way scientists run experiments the way we run our lives if there was a perfect manual yes exactly what we have to do in order to succeed it would probably not be as fun right yeah yeah definitely I’m glad you I’m glad you brought up that that phrase fail like a scientist because that that is from another one of your articles that I really enjoyed is about fear of failure right yes and so yeah I wanted to ask a couple questions about that because such a big part of entrepreneurship or really any big risk that someone might take in their career journey the like the possibility of failure is a pretty big deterrent like it’s there like some leap that you’re willing to take or that you hate it may not work out yes and so um I I guess just kind of talk about that a little bit like why why is the fear of failure so bad or why do you perceive it as bad as opposed to no actually this is an evolutionary thing that’s kind of giving me some feedback saying hey this might be risky you might want to just hang tight with status quo why do you look at that fear as being a negative it’s funny that you mention it is this an evolutionary thing and it is because we’re we’re social animals right right you have this very strong need to be accepted by other people and this is probably part of the reason why we’re comparatively speaking doing so well as a species the problem is that lots of the fears that we have developed a very long time ago mm-hmm when we needed them to survive in the world make absolutely no sense anymore today so this is also why for example lots of people have a fear of public speaking whereas you know rationally speaking when you get on stage that no one in the public or in the audience is going to eat your life there’s nothing that is going to happen but still your heart is pounding and you have this nuts in your stomach and you’re sweating and you have all of these physical reactions even though there’s nothing to be afraid of but in nature having a bunch of strangers / other animals searching you and all looking at you was a big sign of danger so we still have this in our head and so for in for the fear of failure it’s also very similar we in the past we needed it as part of a social group to be considered a useful member of that group right because useful members would get more food and would be protected etc today we have unfortunately not enough yet but more systems that protect us so it’s not as dangerous to fail at least for people who have a safety net but we still have this fear of failure that is DP and code inside us and so I do think it’s something that’s evolutionary and this is also why it’s so hard to get rid of it right yeah that that so that makes complete sense in terms of the sense of feeling that the in the need to feel like you belong like you’re valued like you’re part of the part of that group yeah and so and that that’s what would that’s what would hold that’s what would hold you back and I pulled it up because I got this new quote Seth Godin as well in the article the cost of being wrong is less than the cost of doing nothing so let me say it again the cost of being wrong is less than the cost of doing nothing so that that is right I just wanna play devil’s advocate that’s right or if you’re discontent with your status quo like what if I would’ve actually no I’m pretty happy with my status quo the cost of being wrong would be that I’m putting all of this at stake in somehow so how can we think about structuring these like fail like a scientist type experiments so that I’m exposed to the upside without putting you know the kind of foundation of my status quo yeah take em okay yeah totally I want to say first that a lot of the content that I write is for entrepreneurs and not everyone has to be one and so if someone is really happy with you know their their life at this point and I don’t feel the need to create a company or take that risk yeah neatly fine so so that’s one thing but you add to answer your actual question but how can you kind of like you know explore and innovate without necessarily having to fill that fear which is a complete neck completely natural one this is also why I’m a huge fan of site projects and I think anyone who feels the need to create something should first start with a site project there’s no need to quit your job straight away totally and take that huge risk because if there’s a huge risk and not everyone is single with the safety nets like lots of people have kids have you know a student loan or or just not a lot of money and and not everyone should have to it is this very toxic narrative that I see a lot in the Silicon Valley circles about you know this kind of like supposed correlation between your passion and motivation for your startup and the fact that you’re willing to quit everything else and just dedicate your life to it and and I think that’s that’s very dangerous I think that it’s it’s absolutely great to have a full-time job feeling secure and being able to try things out experiment launch a side project see how it goes and by see how it goes and mean both see how it goes in terms of building his business is it a successful one is it something that people want but also how’s it going for yourself do you actually enjoy the process do you enjoy not having someone telling you exactly what to do every day because that can be very scary to have to decide for yourself every day what you’re supposed to do you how do you cope with the uncertainty in terms of you because you’re going to switch from a salary that you get every month to some months where you doing very well in some mantra you have nothing so so how does that work for you basically and so yeah I think to me site projects are a great way to answer that question about the fear of failure mm-hmm yeah thanks thanks for that we only have a few minutes left here it’s just want to ask one more question just of everything that you’ve been writing about all of these different topics and you mentioned a second ago that you are writing this specifically with entrepreneurs in mind but are there any aspects of these practices or the topics that you’re writing about that you most commonly see entrepreneurs struggle with yes I think for lots of entrepreneurs it’s and this is I think why the fear of failure article was so popular why the joy of missing one missing out one was so popular it’s this constant battle between personal and professional life and it’s is very different from from people working a nine-to-five where you have this peer cut between work and life and for entrepreneurs especially because they are usually taking a big risk it’s the lion bird yes and it’s very difficult for them to know where personal life stops and professional life starts and vice and versa so to me this is probably one of the biggest challenges that entrepreneurs that I see reading my blog at least face ok well yes I everything you said there resonates personally haha thanks yeah thanks for everything that yours that you’re writing and putting out there how can listeners find and follow you online so I’m not going to share my Twitter because I created that handle when I was very young and anything and it’s impossible to stop but I’m going to share my website which is nest labs comm m es s L ABS comm and there are links to all of my social channels they’re wonderful and I will put those in the show notes as well my guest today has been and Laura Lacombe and Laura thank you so much for everything that you’ve shared with us today thank you for having me that was great all right everyone let’s get into some closing thoughts here but before we do that I want to say thanks so much to the listeners who have left a 5-star rating or review at iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts thanks in particular to a user named armature natural for saying I wish I could say how I stumbled across bright and early what I can’t say is the quality of practical content is off the charts and then some other super nice things so thank you very very much for that it really does mean a whole lot and if you could take just a minute or two scroll down on your podcast app there leave a five star rating review really would help other listeners to find the show so alright let’s get into it I that whole bit about scheduling and Laura scheduling 8:00 to 9:30 everyday in writing I asked her offline after we hung up hey I meant to ask a follow-up question there you know when you’re writing 8:00 to 9:30 are you three days ahead is that for next week’s bit or what and and she said no she writes from 8 to 9:30 and then she hits publish you know on on her blog and so you know whether or not that ends up working for you or not I think you know just the the discipline and the forcing function thereof I’m gonna write and produce every single day and you know see I think she’s I think and Laura’s at like a hundred straight days or something and so it that feels like the sort of thing that once you become once you kind of get the flywheel moving and once you once you get that discipline and that is in place then it starts to become easier completely resonates with me I can just think of so many things in my life both creative emotional physical whatever like all sorts of different areas of my life that I can think of that right now would feel really hard to get going but at one point in my life where those things were really easy there are things I’m doing right now that are quite easy or they feel easy rather because they’ve become they’ve become this habit and so I like I liked her advice about you know book it do not leave it to chance it’s if those sorts of things are not going your night is gonna AG you know find yourself you know on day 100 of writing 700 words a day in a row and likewise for for other things so what else I you know I had posted about this maybe a week or so ago on Twitter saying like do I know anybody who is just completely nailed you know your your calendar and just like your weekly routines and you know etc and I was asking it in the sense of being self-employed you know how do you schedule those things out and Asia Matos who I want to say episode 9 of bright and early my beginning kept my beginning that wrong by an episode or two but but she reached out to say that you know it’s definitely something that she she has worked on and has a morning routine sticks to it sees a ton of value and somebody responded to that saying something the effect of you know I’m I don’t see the I don’t see the obsession I don’t get the obsession with scheduling and calendaring that’s why I work for myself so that I can dictate determine what I want to work on if that if that resonates for you if that works for you then cool go with it I’ve not seen it work for me and and so I was finding so I just think it was interesting to hear that that is a practice that that’s been helpful for an lor as well I’m curious you know as you’re listening and thinking about the habits that you have established how have you established them most especially around things like like like creative production that’s that sort of thing I’m really curious how how you have how you have been able to nail that and so if you’ve got thoughts on that hit me up hit me up on Twitter I really enjoyed that bit of the conversation around the joy of missing out the fear and fear of missing out asking why it is that your your your thinking that you ought to do something and is it you know is it because you’re pushing yourself to grow you want to try it you want to have a new experience it’s something genuinely just sounds cool and sounds fun to you or is it you know because of a feeling of of some sort of pressure or of keeping up keeping up with a with your peer group or something like that just the the basic question of why am I doing this why do I want to do this that it’s pretty much never a bad never a bad question to ask regardless and so I I’ll link to that article in the show notes if you haven’t already read it I it’s a it’s a very quick read you know less than you know ten minutes and and I think will probably give you plenty to think about really enjoy the bit of the conversation around valuing prioritizing the process the daily process over the the big picture goals definitely a good idea to you know have have a goal in mind or like some somewhere that you want to get to but figure out what are the the tiny steps were the incremental habits that you can you know start to do today every day that will eventually get you there and then put put your focus on those definitely hearing plenty of James clear and atomic habits in that if you haven’t read that one yet highly recommended good book and yeah and good stuff from from an lor there as well the whole yep that piece about the three the three mine frames that are most likely to help you eventually reach those goals um around growth mindset metacognition and self authorship she found that to be incredibly fascinating totally totally agree that you know growth mindset might be is probably being overused misapplied etc etc in a couple of places on the on the other hand it is it is if it is becoming cliche or overused it’s because you know it has there’s a whole lot of truth to it and and and I just think there’s it’s it should be it’s almost self-evident I think anyway that the mindset of a lot you know I don’t know how to do this right now I can get better at this now I don’t have to be the best ever I don’t have to be the best in the world I mean you have to be in the top 20% but I can’t do something to be better at there to be better than I currently am I can’t improve on my current position and I have that ability that’s just its self in here is its inherent to me that that is just a better way of thinking than in the fixed position and let’s see yeah on meta on metacognition I appreciated her thoughts there that that it is it’s related to the you know to to emotional self-awareness it’s all about self reflection understanding how you think who you are wait I that sounded funny that like not who how you think you are I mean it’s all about how you think it’s about who you are and and how do you yeah how do you go about processing things and then expressing the way that you’ve processed them and I just feel like in every area of life you know know yourself like know thyself is is key and critical to to figuring out what it is that what it is that you want to do I’m definitely going to check out this Coursera learning how to learn course what I what a great answer there to put to my question of how how do you get better at this and Ann Ann Laura says well it happens to be the most popular course ever on Coursera and it’s free so there you go super super practical great a great takeaway there if my goal is to give you all one thing that you can apply tomorrow well how about a free course uh-huh that’s not bad did it did not surprise me that journaling is something that that and Laura’s found to be super effective this is something that I hear all the time and makes me wonder why why I’m not why I am not better at journaling or more more disciplined edit I used to journal I use a journal all the time and at some at some point as a practice it just it just fell off and any time I’ll go through these seasons of journaling on it I’m not even a daily basis just like semi regular basis I just notice it it just feels it just feels better your thoughts your thoughts are more well organized it’s just yeah it’s just such a good it is just such a good practice I have a friend so Richard I wonder if your if you’re still doing this where I remember that you know he would he would use this app day one I’m not sure if you’re familiar with it spelled Li exactly like it sounds Oh any and it’s you know it’s like nice little like journaling app for at least at the time iOS and Mac OS and so made it really easy like add photos and like journaling about your day and all this sort of thing if I’m remembering correctly as my friend Richard had this command command line tool or some where you know on a on a daily basis it would just it would pull something from history about you know from that day basically like you know rolled his own this day this day in history type type of app and just seen it just seems like that’s just such that’s just a practice that’s so important in life especially as things become more hectic or more fast-paced and and all of these different you know inputs that were getting the ability to to slow down practice some self-reflection what do I think about this what was my experience how did I react there how might I decide to react differently in the future how could I affect my reaction that sort of thing just becomes much more much more important and in let’s see last last thought was just the idea about failing like a scientist I complained completely on board with that with that approach you know to not be afraid of failure to to not to fail regularly and safely that it that is how you’ve learned I definitely think that there is some like cultural pushback on this now because of you know Facebook’s very famous move fast and break things mantra from the year from the early days that is now like oh you move fast and break break democracy is like is definitely you know kitten getting thrown under the bus there rightly so Facebook if you haven’t deleted Facebook then you should seriously consider it sidebar but but so to get back on to get back on the train here the the idea of fail fast and learn from it is is getting some getting some pretty serious cultural pushback I think much of it is is miss applied and and not and unfair the idea that you should be able to you should want to you ought to run multiple tiny experiments and learn as much as you possibly can as quickly as you possibly can is it’s just such good advice it’s just a good model I think and what I think is particularly important to keep in mind as we were talking about it there is do so do so in a way that you’re going to learn something without blowing at the lab you know so to speak and that’s what I was trying to get at I’ll link I’ll link to need to look this up because I’m not sure if I wrote a blog post about this or if it’s just like some tweets that I had but where I just pay I really think that like the the advice have just go for it is really really bad advice so why I was I really liked that and Laura was mentioning like hey yeah the way to do this is with side projects with side hustle and I just the the notion of if you’re not yet full-time entrepreneur if you’re still working on it working at a salaried position but want to want to get into entrepreneurship build your own thing just go for it is terrible terrible advice in my opinion I think that it almost guarantees that in the end you will actually not be able to realize your dream because if you just go for it without putting the parameters in place to run your experiment with with some degree of like a foundation and a baseline you’re just going to find yourself going back to your salaried position and so there’s some like practical things you can do to set up the lab so that you can so that you can run your experiments and that it has a higher chance of of teaching you what you need to know over time okay I’ll quit I’ll quit torturing the metaphor there we’d love to know what you all think it’s so good when I hear from you all on on Twitter I am beer a br h EA and if you do have time to scroll down on your podcast app right now just leave a five star rating interview would mean a whole lot it’s how other people stumble across and find the show those ratings it matters how they how you show up in the podcast search engine so if you’ve got a chance to do that looking a lot and I guess I will talk to you next week